Vanessa Sanyauke: Taking Up Space (2022)

Founder & CEO of award-winning global organisation, Girls Talk London that develops products and services to connect businesses with female talent in 37+ countries through digital products and content, bespoke programmes & events. Their aim is to democratise access to opportunities and jobs in male dominated sectors and to empower women to develop the skills and confidence to progress in their careers.

Through this agency, Vanessa has worked with companies such as Apple, Amazon, Beats by Dre, Meta, HSBC UK, Goldman Sachs, Snap Inc, Virgin Media O2, Zalando, BT and Vodafone + many more to connect them with diverse talent across all levels within their businesses.

Vanessa is a Podcaster and Host of The After Work Drinks Club debuting at Number 4 on the Apple Business Charts and her online talk show, Girls Talk, being viewed by nearly 1 million people worldwide interviewing influential global leaders such as Tsitsi Masiyiwa & Munroe Bergdorf. 

Vanessa has held several Senior roles in the financial services, Law and Public Sector for over 16 years and has worked for companies such as Standard Chartered Bank, HFW, HSBC, Barclays, JP Morgan and UK Parliament. 

Her expertise sits in creating and executing global diversity, inclusion and sustainability strategies and programmes, building capability & influence in organisations and partnering with & advising C-suite executives, senior leadership and HR colleagues

She is a sought-after speaker on ESG, business and women’s issues and her speaking engagements have taken her across the globe at institutions such as The Southbank Centre, Glitz Africa She Summit, UN Women UK, Cosmopolitan Self-Made Summit, Investec, Royal Bank of Canada, St. Paul’s Cathedral, Google UK, City Hall, Stylist Magazine, Institute of Directors and Women in Research UK.

Vanessa is a regular visiting lecturer and speaker on Social Entrepreneurship, Corporate Social Responsibility and Diversity and Inclusion for London School of Economics, City University London, Kent Business School, Brunel University and Kings College London.

Vanessa has been recognised as a leader in her field listed as #15 in the Financial Times, Yahoo Finance and EMpower top ethnic minority future leaders list in Europe, U.S and Canada and also as one of 30 people changing the world by the London Business School and one of London’s most influential people by the Evening Standard Newspaper.

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Chapters

• 10:35 Vanessa's Origin Story
• 20:25 The Beginnings of Girls Talk Global
• 25:45 Taking Up Space As An Introvert
• 28:41 After Work Drinks Club - Careers & Business podcast
• 37:44 DEI and Financial Literacy
• 53:57 Words Of Encouragement

Transcript

The following episode was recorded on May 31st, 2022. We apologize for the delay. Please enjoy.

Yo! Welcome to the party. Hello, Makadini Salibonani! My name is Vongai, and you're listening to ZimExcellence, a weekly celebration of Zimbabwe's changemakers and trailblazers.

So, here's the secret, y'all: Zimbabweans are actually dope AF, and it's just time that we recognize it. So, grab yourself a plate of sadza and grab that stony ginger beer, and let the party begin!

Welcome to another episode of ZimExcellence. Today, my guest is the founder and CEO of the award-winning global agency, Girls Talk London, which connects women in 37 countries with businesses to empower them and develop the skills and confidence to succeed in work and life.

Through the agency, she works with companies such as Facebook, HSBC, Goldman Sachs, Blackrock, Snap Inc, Virgin Media O2, BT, and Vodafone, connecting them with diverse talent across all levels within their businesses.

She sits on the advisory board of She of the Sea and is a subcommittee board member of Refuge. We have finished, y'all! And she has a current social media following of 22k, also hosting the business podcast The After Work Drinks Club, which debuted at No. 4 on the Apple Business charts.

So, y'all, she was around like Tim Ferris. They were on the same level for like a good week. It was dope!

Our guest has 15 years of experience in development, inclusion, responsible business, and sustainability, working in financial services, technology, and government. She has also been recognized as a leader in her field, listed as No. 15 in the Financial Times, Yahoo Finance, and EMPower Top Ethnic Minority Future Leaders in Europe, US, and Canada.

Her expertise sits in creating and executing global diversity, inclusion, and sustainability strategies and programs, building capability and influence in organizations, and partnering with and advising C-suite executives, senior leadership, and HR colleagues.

Our wonderful guest has also been recognized as one of 30 people changing the world by London Business School and also one of London's most influential people by The Evening Standard. She has been featured in The Guardian, Cosmo Magazine, Sunday Times Style Magazine, Stylist Magazine, and The Financial Times.

So, please welcome the incomparable Vanessa Sanyauke!

Vanessa: "Yeah! Like, who is she? 

Vongai: That’s you, girl. Vanessa welcome to the party! 

Vanessa: Thank you for having me.

Vongai: Thank you, you are so welcome. So, it's a party, it's a celebration! You are all about, you know, the after-work drinks. So, picture this: we are at the family function, the Zimbabwean function is happening, all the music's happening. What are you putting on your plate, and what is your drink that's gonna accompany your meal? Cause it's a celebration! What are you getting at the function?"

Vanessa: My go-to dish? Hmm, definitely has to be meat, cause it's not a Zimbabwean function if we don’t have meat. We don’t do vegan, vegetarian—

Vanessa: Thank you for having me.

Vongai: Yeah, exactly, we don’t do vegan!

Vanessa: "Exactly! Well, my dad is pescatarian now, so that is really like—"

Vanessa: Thank you for having me.

Vongai: Yeah, but he will dabble, right?

Vanessa: "Yeah, yeah. Fish is meat! Fish is—he's all right. But you know, we have to have some kind of, you know, animal, you know, in our function. So, for me, it would be some beef. I love mac and cheese! I’d have some beef, mac and cheese. I like a good salad, some rice—brown or white?"

Vanessa: Thank you for having me.

Vongai: This is important stuff.

Vanessa: Brown! I’m trying to be healthy.

Vanessa: Thank you for having me.

Vongai: With peanut butter or without?

Vanessa: Without! Without. Okay, my mom does a dope one with peanut butter, so if I’m gonna have that—yeah, great, it tastes lovely. But I would have it without, just to be healthy.

Vongai: And then your drink?

Vanessa: "Love! I love champagne. I love champagne, I love wine!"

Vongai: "I'm a champers girl too!"

Vanessa: Yeah, it's just so fabulous. So, a glass of champagne with my meat, my beef, and my carbs. Love it!

Vongai: Living your best life! Yes, okay, so we probably don’t have to tell them, but I kind of want to tell them. So how do you and I know each other? We happen to share the same godmother—shout out to her—yes! And yeah, like, it’s so funny because, like, you know, you’re this amazing, accomplished person, and I’m just like, Oh my gosh, I grew up with her! So, growing up, I had my favorite cousin. I don’t know if we’re gonna say her name or if we should say her name—I don’t know, it depends on how you feel—but I had, like, my favorite cousin, and you were my favorite cousin’s favorite cousin. So, I was always kind of jealous of you—haha!

Vanessa: Who’s that? Who’s that? Haha!

Vongai: Garikai. Like, I had this belief system because Garikai was my favorite cousin, and she’s also my godsister. Then you were my favorite cousin! So, I’d be around her, and I’d be like, Oh my gosh! But then you’d come around, and she’s like, "Vanessa! Vanessa!" And I was like, "Darn it!"

Vanessa: The thing is, it’s so funny because we have this joke that a lot of people—I think I’m slightly older? I think I’m older than you? I think? Yeah? Both of us? So, people used to think that I was actually Auntie Mati’s firstborn because I was always with her. That’s the relationship that Go Kai and I have. I’m literally like Auntie Mattie’s firstborn—everyone asked her, "How’s your eldest daughter, Vanessa?" I mean, it’s Garikai!

Vongai: So, that—yeah. Yeah! How are we literally—listen—she’s like my sister, and then Gary comes, like my sister, and I was like, Tori, why do I have to be the younger one? Like, you’re the baby sister! Oh, like, you don’t know this—this is like confession time before we get into the actual meat of this episode—but I always saw you as this glamorous person, and I kind of aspired to be like you. I just have this interesting memory: I think Kai and I came to your house, and then we were in your room. You had gone somewhere, and you just happened to have all these things that matched—like, skincare products—which is so weird to think about now, ‘cause, like, yeah, you were probably really young, and I was like, "What? How is she like this?"You just seemed so sophisticated, like, "Ahh, she’s older and cooler!" You had the tea tree this, and the tea tree lotion, and the tea tree that, and I’m like, "Oh my gosh, I remember that!"

Vanessa: Haha! That is so hilarious! I remember—my mom has always been big on skincare. Actually, her auntie Mati have had amazing skin. And they’re, yes, amazing women in their 60s, but they look like they’re in their 40s. So that tea tree stuff was my mom saying, "Look, you’re gonna thank me when you’re older. You might be 10 or 11, but you need to start now!"

Vongai: Yeah, you were probably 10.

Vanessa: So, that was where the tea tree obsession came from. 

Vongai: You know, I was thinking about that last month when we had our pre-chat, and I was just like—it was probably her mom that introduced her to all those things. But when I was young, I was like, "She’s so cool! She goes into Tesco’s or wherever and just says, 'Mom, I want that,' and she gets it!"

Vanessa: Like—oh no! My mom! My mom was like, "You need to be using these. But it’s so funny because you say you thought I was this glamorous person, but I’m just here, no makeup on, feeling awesome—no eyelashes, no eyebrows done. So, it’s kind of funny how—yeah.I don’t know if you remember. 

Vongai: But you’re still Vanessa, and I’m still very intimidated because I wanna be you when I grow up! You were just so cool! And we would get together and, you know, listen to Destiny’s Child or whatever the latest album was—yes, guys! Vanessa always had, like, the latest albums out. So, you’d go to her house, look through her CDs, and you’d be like—like, I think  Kai would be like, "Oh! You got this?" And you’d be like, "Yeah, it just came out the other day!" And I’d be like, "Oh my God, you’re so cool!" That was literally me—the nerdy young one!

Vanessa: No, it’s so funny, ‘cause we have another cousin called Lungi, and Lungi’s like, Vanessa! The Destiny’s Child album—I always think of you! It’s so funny, like The Writing’s on the Wall was the album of all albums. I would literally rinse that album! So, that is such—such a cool thing to hear, that you still have that memory.

Vongai: Oh, yeah! And it was like—you had Tapiwa, your brother, and then Gari had her brother. And then, later on, I had my brotherhood. But then, you know, the boat was rocked because our youngest cousin was born!

Vanessa: It’s like—oh, exactly! Always true! I still love you.

Vongai: Okay, it’s amazing—so, you were born in the UK?

Vanessa: Yes, yes, yes!

Vongai: So, um, you wanna give us a little bit about your background and origin story? Since you are an Asian excellence superhero?

Vanessa: Superhero! I love that! Yeah, I mean, I was born—yeah, born in the UK. Grew up in—actually, I was born in North London. That’s where Kai and I grew up.

Vongai: Shoutout to North London! North London! North London!

Vanessa: I’m telling you—

Vongai: None of this South, East, West—North, baby! 

Vanessa: We were North! North is the best! And I actually wish—I mean, one of my lifelong dreams would be to move back to North London. It’s super expensive right now, so I’m in Southeast. But, I was born in North London—Highbury. Highbury Hill was where we lived. And, yeah—both my parents were born in Zimbabwe. So, my mum is from Rusape, my dad is from Nyanga. And then they moved to the UK in the late ‘70s. They came here very young—actually, very, very, very young—and they’ve stayed here ever since. So, they both had their education in the UK. My dad went to Cardiff University and studied civil engineering. My mum went to the University of Liverpool and studied nursing. And then they had me in the ‘80s. And then my brother, Tapiwa, followed in 1990.So, we grew up in North London. For my earliest years—I was born in North London, born in Whittington Hospital, grew up there.

Vongai: Oh, really? Yeah! Wait—at one point, they wanted to knock it down! Is it still around?

Vanessa: It’s still around! Why is it still there?

Vongai: I have a certificate from there! I don’t know if it’s still there, but, like, I got something ‘cause I was a good girl. ‘Cause I got my shots or something. And so, they had my name and my face on the wall! I was a celebrity of Whittington Hospital—legend!

Vanessa: It might still be there! I’d go and visit—let’s find that out! But, yeah, I loved it. I love, love, love North London! And my church is based around the corner. From Whittington, actually! So, I’m always, always there. And my lifelong dream would be to afford to buy a flat there. That’s probably what I could afford, ‘cause it’s so expensive. But I—I love it! It was, yeah, one of the best memories—

Vongai: Being in Alexandra Park and all that. That’s so great! So, like, you know, I wanna kind of connect the dots a bit more. We’ve got, like, you know, your upbringing and your parents’ background. What is, you know, the gap before we get to girl starting Girls Talk London and The Climb membership, and all the wonderful stuff that you’re doing with diversity and inclusion? So, here’s another thing where we have something in common—we both went to Brunel! And you actually understand—

Vanessa: I had no idea!

Vongai: Yeah! We had literally no clue! Again, like, even though we’re literally twins, there is a bit of an age gap between us—yeah. Um, but you’re the second person on the show who’s actually gone to Brunel!

Vanessa: Really? I mean, you know what? Who knows? It’s a special place. I feel like there’s something special about Brunel, and Brunelians—most of them have gone on to do amazing things. So, there’s definitely something special about that university. Yeah, I—I enjoyed my time there, actually. So, I did—it’s interesting, my story. So, I was supposed to do medicine. Got a place to do medicine—direct medicine at Queen Mary’s—but didn’t get the grades. I missed out on my grades. So, I ended up going to Brunel to do biomedical science. And then I was gonna do graduate medicine afterward—so go via another route. And then, yeah—I did biomedical science. Brunel was fun. It was really, like, a culture shock for me. So, I grew up—so, after growing up in North London, my parents moved us to Essex. And it was very predominantly white. There were very few Black students. So, during my teenage years, I didn’t grow up with loads of Black people my age around me. The only—yeah—the most Black people that I was kind of around were my family, my cousins, or a few friends at school. When I went to Brunel, I was like—"Oh my gosh! I’ve never seen so many Black people my age before in my entire life! And I think it was really, like, a revolution for me. I really came into my shell, became in touch with my culture. And there were, like, Nigerians and Ghanaians and Sierra Leoneans and Jamaicans and Trinidadians and all of these mixed Chinese-Nigerians. Like—eh! Oh, a mix! It was—yeah—absolutely phenomenal! And three of the best years of my life. And a lot of my—even though I was doing biomedical science, I met a lot of my peers who all started businesses at university. And that’s where I got the entrepreneurial bug. That’s where I set up my first social enterprise. So, Brunel was a lot of fun. A lot of parties, but also a lot of cultural—cultural groundings and cultural awareness.

Vongai: I love that so much! You—you’ve just kind of touched on this idea of, before being at Brunel, being the only one—which is a common story, sadly, for a lot of people who grow up in environments where they are the minority or traditionally underrepresented. Which is, you know—kind of sad.Um, yeah. Who were your—who are the people that you looked up to growing up, or who you were able to see yourself in?

Vanessa: It would be famous people that I would look up to. So—Oprah Winfrey. I started watching her show when I was 8 years old. And she was on, like

Vongai: See, you were the cool—you were the cool older cousin because you were watching Oprah at eight!

Vanessa: Yeah!

Vongai: I was watching Disney Channel!

Vanessa: I was interested in—I don’t even know what they were called—Tom and Jerry? Any? I was not interested. I was interested—I was very, like, older for my age. I didn’t really feel like a child.

Vongai: I mean, to this day, what has changed? I’m watching, like, Big Mouth. That’s, like, literally—I’m still watching.

Vanessa: But it’s so funny because I’m actually now, like, really getting into, like, Disney and stuff like that. But back when I was younger—eight years old—I stumbled across BBC Two and I stumbled across this Black woman talking. And she just captivated me. And it was seeing this Black woman in charge, having her own show, and I was like, Wow! I wanna be like this woman when I grow up. And I idealized Oprah. As I still do. Still look up to her. She’s phenomenal.So, she was my role model. And also—music. I was really into music. So, Destiny’s Child. Yeah. Beyoncé. Like, these were, like, my idols. Beautiful Black women. We just examined album covers. And that little booklet that came with it?

Vongai: Oh my God—I devoured that.

Vanessa: And the thank yous! They all had their own thank yous. And you would have, sometimes, song lyrics. Seeing that they would produce and write their own music—it was just like— Music back in the day? It’s not like it is nowadays. It was—yeah— It was real shit, you know? It was so real. And they were the people that I idolized growing up—because they looked like me. So, it was musicians. Singers. TLC as well—loved TLC. Wanted to be like Left Eye. Whitney Houston—was also—I was obsessed with Whitney Houston. Whitney Houston was—I think, like—It was Oprah.Whitney Houston.And then Destiny’s Child.That—Whitney Houston—I just was obsessed and adored her. And so, those were the kind of role models that I had growing up.

Vongai: Vanessa, I’m really curious—how you went from, you know, studying biomedical sciences at Brunel University to then, you know, starting up Girls Talk London. Like—what is the gap in between there? ‘Cause it’s just, like, amazing what you’re doing with taking space as a woman and advocating for other women and empowering women. So, let us know a little bit!

Vanessa: I mean—interesting story. So, I realized during my second year of university—With Bunsen burners.And in the lab.With my lab coat.It was just not—It was not—It was not fly.It was not—yeah. But I did my degree to please my parents. Got their certificate.

Vongai: As you do!

Vanessa: Exactly! Just to kind of, um, please them. And then—during my second year of university, most of my friends had a side hustle. Very entrepreneurial. And I set up my first social enterprise, which was called The Rafiki Network. So, I applied to get—I applied for funding from the government. Got it. Imagine it. Like—twenty years old! And—um—yeah.

Vongai: I can’t. I can’t imagine that now. Like, I—I can’t. I can’t imagine doing that at twenty.I can imagine doing that now.

Vanessa: Yeah.

Vongai: Even though—by the way, listeners—I am sixteen. And Vanessa is still twenty.

Vanessa: And got—got funding! And took my friends from uni— And we went to mentor Black youth in South London. And then, I—after finishing university—I knew that being a doctor—This wasn’t really my— My calling. But I wanted to be an entrepreneur. But I just didn’t know—Like, what kind of shape it would take.So, my cousin—who also went to Brunel, Mabasa—He said to me—He was doing, like—he did a degree in engineering.And he was like—"Vanessa, a lot of banks are hiring outside of their grad scheme. So, they’re looking for scientists. You should apply."So, after university—Couple of months after—I ended up working at Barclays.I worked at J.P. Morgan.And I also went to HSBC—In various roles.Just doing a lot of temping.That’s when I realized—Actually—I wanna work in business.But in the doing good space.So—Helping them contribute in a positive way to the environment and to the world.And so—I then decided, "Right, I know that medicine is definitely not for me.But I want to work with companies to help them do better."So, I decided to upskill.I did a Master’s in Sustainability and Management at Royal Holloway, University of London.And then—That’s when I started working in diversity and inclusion—With companies in the financial services—As a consultant.And that’s when I started Girls Talk London.And I realized—Actually—That there was a big issue around gender equality in the workplace. And I wanted to do something about it.The current, um, organization where I was working—Didn’t really wanna do anything officially for girls.So I thought—"I’m gonna do my own thing."And that’s how I started Girls Talk London—In 2013.

Vongai: That’s amazing. Um—Why the name Girls Talk London? So, it’s, like, really interesting. Because—you know, I—I love the mission that it has. And, you know, the explanation in the description that you give.But, like, you know—For someone who didn’t hear the explanation—They think, "Oh, Girls Talk London—"Like—You think of those little magazines you’d read as a girl—With the horses—And all that.Like—We’re gonna talk about, like, boys—And cute trends—And how to do your makeup for summer—Or something.But it’s not that.

Vanessa: There was a magazine called Girls Talk that disbanded. But—because we started out— So, Girls Talk—We started, actually, as— Bringing senior women in business—To talk to young girls. That’s—hence the name—Girls Talk. And then—Because Girls Talk was a really popular world name—globally—London was actually unknown.And we thought—"Okay, we’re in London. Let’s just call the company Girls Talk London."It just kind of happened like that.So—I was actually brainstorming with O2—Yeah!They were one of our early partners.And then—We were just like—"Oh! Okay—Girls Talk London!"But it’s evolved.But—because our community knows our brand as Girls Talk London—We just thought—"There’s no point doing a name change."Really.Let’s just keep the name.And we’ve kind of just evolved—In terms of what we offer. So, that’s how our name came about.

Vongai: That's really cool, and I feel like by keeping the name, you know, rather than changing it, you kind of redefined what we know as "girl talk." Like, it's not just sitting around with your girlfriends and gabbing—it's like, hey, let's... yeah, gossiping. Like, let's actually get down and be like, how are you doing? Are you okay? What do you need? This is, you know, literally talking about women's issues and things we go through that, historically, women were afraid to talk to other women about. Stuff that was going on with them because, you know, we were conditioned to believe we just don't talk about these things—whether it's, like, you know, my big passion, which is mental health, or, like in your case, business and financial literacy for women. Yeah, and I feel like, in any kind of topic that you could talk about, this idea of taking space as a woman is so important. So, it's kind of amazing that you have this organization about empowering women and helping women get ahead, that's run by a woman, and that you are just so visible and so young. How does that feel? Because I know, like, as an actor, I—I know I read in one of your book posts that you are an introvert. I am also an introvert, and being visible can be very... very anxiety-inducing and just overwhelming. How do you get through it? How does—yeah, basically, how does it all feel?

Vanessa: It is overwhelming. And I think the great thing is, now that I've built out my team, I'm like, "Right, you now go and network and speak on my behalf because I'm tired." Because it really takes up so much energy. I have to psych myself up, and a lot of my team—my team are like, "How are you an introvert? You're so good at speaking, and you're so confident." And I'm like, "You don’t know how I have to prepare!" I have to get my essential oils going, I have to play my playlist, I have to—you know. And after the engagement, I need to lie down. Like, it takes all the energy out of me. And there's this whole anxiety, and I really have to psych myself up to do speaking engagements. I hate networking engagements, but I have to do it. Because, as an entrepreneur and as a CEO now, I just have to. But what I've done is, I've looked at the tools that are at my disposal to kinda get me through it. So, aromatherapy, herbal tea—those are really good. Making sure that if I have a lot of speaking engagements, if I'm going to something like an event, I plan for the next morning to have some downtime. I make sure I can go home and really decompress. I'm a big believer in essences as well, like natural essences that you can put in water to calm anxiety and nerves. And I'm a big believer in ashwagandha—I think it's called ashwagandha? Yeah, I think it is. It's this natural herb that really helps with anxiety. So, I usually take it the day before if I have a big speaking engagement or something like that. But I'm getting better at it now that I know what tools to use.

Vongai: Yeah, yeah. I have this whole thing where I’m just like—I made an Instagram post the other day, and I was like, "Yo, I don’t know what I’m doing. I need to tell you this because some of you think I have it figured out, and I don’t. I’m literally making it up as I go along."I tell people, I lead with intuition. And sometimes, I don’t know what I mean. Like, I take my CBD, I drink water, I light the incense, I have candles going, I put on the playlist. And I just—you know, I give myself those affirmations, like, it's okay for me to take space. That I’m worthy. That I’m enough. That I’m deserving. And then, also, reminding myself of all those to come that might see themselves in me. Not to be a narcissist, but in the big scheme of things, there are still not that many of us. So, I’d also kind of like to link that to the fact that you host a podcast—that’s amazing. And also, you're giving more, being of value and service, and providing information to people about industries they might be interested in. And how absolutely amazing is it that you debuted at No. 4? Because 50% of all podcast listeners identify as women, yet less than 50% of shows are hosted by women. And then, even less than that are hosted by Black women, and of course, African women, Zimbabwean women, and others. So what you're doing—exactly—you are powerful.

Vanessa: Thank you. It is... it is quite... I don't know, even just for me, I think it just appears as Zimbabwean and Black women. I mean, you have so many, like, Nigerian and Ghanaian counterparts. They've got so many Black women from their diaspora who are doing things, but I thought it was... with them, it's very difficult to ascertain lots of people who were doing things maybe in the space I wanted to do. I kind of struggled with that. I didn’t simply have that role model, so I kind of do feel not alone, but I would love more of my kind of country women, men, and non-binary people to kind of do things like podcasting and in the media space because I think there’s definitely a lack of—I've never, in a scene, like, seen a British... apart from Munya. Now, he's a British comedian—his name is Munya. He's like blown up, he’s got 1 million followers, he’s a massive comedian. He's Zimbabwean, but apart from him, that kind of presenter/content creator space in terms of Zimbabweans, I'd love to see more of us.

Vongai: Yeah, you and I both, you know, represent the first-generation kids or the third-culture kids, and we’ve kind of ventured off from the non-traditional nursing and being a doctor. Yeah, yeah, so it’s like... yeah, I can... it's very... it's harder than people ever understand because, again, there’s that feeling of being alone, but then there’s also that pressure that might be put on you—or isn’t even put on you knowingly—of, you know, being the representative for everyone. So everyone’s watching you, because if you make a mistake, you represent all of us. Yes, that’s the pressure. That is the pressure of, you know, like debuting and I, to mention an Apple Business podcast, being a Black woman, being a Black British woman, then being a Black British Zimbabwean woman. Yes, there’s a lot of pressure, because it’s... yeah, it’s just kind of, I guess, maybe the first of hopefully many, so kind of really opening up in that space in terms of UK business podcasts. So, yeah, it’s a lot of pressure, and I’m just making sure that I am my authentic self. But at the same time, I do know that, you know, my ancestors are with me, and they’re like, “Don’t... don’t shame us, don’t let us down.” You know, like, those kinds of things as well.

Vongai: Yeah, yeah, I... I like that image. I think it was Ava DuVernay—maybe she got this from Oprah, you know, Mama O—about having that idea of, you know, when you walk into the room, you walk into the room with, like, the 10,000 people behind you.

Vanessa: I come as one, but I stand as 10,000. That’s the one phrase that is very, very powerful. I come as one, but I stand as 10,000.

Vongai: So, when was the moment that you realized you were at the point of no return with Girls Talk London and it just wasn’t, you know, an experiment or a hobby? Like, I know—I don’t know what people, you know, would have been saying at the time, like, “Oh, Vanessa, oh, you’re just doing your thing” or whatever, you know, all that Zimbabwean family talking all that. But then, that you kind of maybe saw the vision of it expanding into The Climb, Black Girls in Tech, Black Girls in Finance, and all the wonderful things.

Vanessa: Yeah, I kind of... even up until, like, last year, I was still trying to pursue that corporate journey of climbing the ladder, I think. And most of it, I guess, was cultural status, ‘cause I used to work for a very large international bank. And it was like working for this bank, and now I'm gonna climb that corporate ladder and I'll still have Girls Talk on the side. But you know when you have a destiny and a purpose, for me, I just read the universe and God, the higher powers, they will literally shove you, yeah, some assault you into that destiny. There's no way that you can escape it. And as much as I try to say, "I just wanna do the corporate thing," I would have clients... I remember saying to like four of my clients, "You know what? I'm just gonna do my corporate thing, so I don't really wanna do any of our programs anymore. This will be the last one. I just wanna wind Girls Talk London down, and I just wanna do me." And they were like, "But wait, what are we gonna do?" And I'm like, "You're like the four major tech companies in the world! What do you mean, what are we gonna do?" And it was that the universe was just literally pushing me into this... into Girls Talk London. And then, it was then around September 2021, I was just in this toxic work environment with toxic colleagues, and literally, I just felt this urge that God was telling me, "It's time to leave. This is your purpose. This environment is not serving you. This is your purpose." And it was at that moment when I took that leap of faith to say, "You know what? I'm really gonna give it my all properly this time. Do it full-time." And I'm doing it full-time, as in I'm not seeing a Plan B, because I used to kind of... I used to kind of do Girls Talk London but kinda contract, do some... I always had my toes in a corporate space as a freelancer, as a kind of supplement income. But this is now, like, I'm in business mode, I'm growing my teams. That was kind of how I ended up really just in my purpose full-time.

Vongai: See, this is full-time now.

Vanessa: Yeah, full-time since September 2021.

Vongai: Yeah, congratulations. Thank you, thank you. So, I'm gonna read this quote that was in your article for Stylist magazine, a magazine that I actually used to read back when I lived in the UK. Oh haha, back in the day. It was one of the first magazines that I was reading on iPad because I think it was like one of the first that had, like, a digital version. They were revolutionary. They still are, literally. Yes, okay, so the quote is: "To level up in your career takes guts. You need to put in the work to face your fears and get committed to being uncomfortable for a while as you make the necessary changes within yourself." So, we've talked a little bit about, you know, imposter syndrome and, you know, having those tools ready and psyching yourself up to, you know, be able to go out and speak and do all these, like, major big things within your company. I wanna talk a little bit about financial literacy, especially when it comes to women. And I also want to talk about—because you give a lot of tips on your Instagram about negotiating, you know, your salary and standing up for yourself in, like, work environments, especially because, sadly, it’s 2022 and there still aren’t a lot of women, not just like in business and tech, but in just all spaces, sadly. And just also the importance behind, you know, people getting comfortable with their finances because we're moving into this Web 3 world of cryptocurrency and blockchain. And the people who get left behind first are usually women and people of color. I think it was last year's, in 2021's International Women's Day, I read a UN report that was something around, I think, the statistic was around 593 million girls around the world are uneducated or, like, don’t get past, you know, education past age 6 or something like that, which is really sad because you find that, you know, money does equal power. And it is the people with money who make all these big decisions and influence politics and stuff like that. You know, Elon Musk just casually bought Twitter like a month ago. So we have to... I cannot let you go without talking about financial literacy.

Vanessa: Yeah, I mean, it's so important. I think even when I think about growing up, I was never taught anything about financial literacy, never encouraged to save, never told about investments, pensions, what credit cards were—nothing. Nothing. Nothing about... 

Vongai:and we’re from Zimbabwe as well, where the money stuff hits harder. 

Vanessa: I know. I know, and it's crazy. And so, for me, I’ve had to... I’ve learned watching my parents make terrible financial decisions and learn from their mistakes. And so, I’m very conscious, I’m very, very anal about being in debt, very anal about, you know, just making sure I save, making sure I’m looking at my pensions, making sure that I’m investing. Like, that has been something that I’ve been really, really determined to learn because of just watching my parents be horrendous at it. So I think it’s really around me... that’s why I’m so passionate about educating especially Black families and Black individuals because there is a Black wealth gap.Hmm, and that’s just not around women, that’s Black people in general. So the average, like, net worth I think of a Black family is like £10,000, and a white family is like times a hundred more. Hmm, and it’s just... it’s shocking. It’s shocking. So I think it’s really important for Black people to educate themselves around this new Web 3, you know, evolution of financial tech and making sure that they, you know, that they educate themselves, that they tap in, go to different events, read different books, listen to the Financial Times. They've got so many different podcasts, have daily updates, and Earn Your Leisure is another podcast which is about Black wealth literacy. So it’s really important for Black people to educate themselves on what is happening in the financial services to benefit themselves. But there is a pension gap with women in terms of how much we have when we retire compared to men. We have significantly less. So I think it’s really important for women to start getting comfortable about talking about their finances, talking about money. So when you’re in business, I’m having that now where I’ve had to review some of our structure in terms of our finances and having to double some of our prices. And you have some companies that are very happy to pay Black women peanuts, yeah? And there are some that actually see, "You know what? This is how much you're worth." So, don’t get scared about charging what you’re worth and seeing clients go, ‘cause the right clients will pay you what you’re worth. And that’s the same thing when you go into, like, a new... when you’re negotiating for a new job. I have a lot of my clients who are coaches or part of the Climb membership. Some of them are scared, like, "What if I, you know, I’m asking for double my salary right now? What if they say no?" And I always say, but would you want to work for someone, an organization, who doesn't really see any value in you? Mmm-hmm, no. So it goes across the borders around women, Black women especially, seeing our value and asking for what we're worth. Doesn't matter what I charged back in 2020—Yesterday's price ain't today's price. Exactly. That needs to be going up. Yes, we need to align. What people don't realize is they'll say, "Oh, why are you asking for double your salary? Why are you doubling your rates?" Well, honey, you are paying me half of what I was worth. Now I know better. It's aligning. It's all about alignment. Think about it. Let's get aligned. Let's go out and get what we are actually overdue on, what we're worth. 

Vongai: Yeah, especially because as Black women, we've literally carried countries on our backs. Whether it's like, you know, Black women in this country, a lot of farming is done by people of color—whether that's people of Latin descent or African descent who are farmers here. Whether it's like, you know, we're going back to slavery and people who picked cotton and built railroads and all of this stuff. And, uh-huh, you know, stuff that was working, happening in Africa. The fact that, you know, the materials that you use to make an iPhone were taken from different African countries. You know, Black women have done so much for this world. So exactly what we need, it's time. 

Vanessa: It's—we are, you know, we, we—

Vongai: and even as mothers, taking care of the household and taking care of children and supporting the man if you're in a heterosexual relationship. 

Vanessa:This, yeah, it's a lot. We are carrying the backs of many people, literally.

Vongai: So as someone who, you know, was born in the diaspora, when was the first time you went to Zimbabwe and what are your memories around it? Do you have any favorite memories from visiting Zimbabwe?

Vanessa: I've always been back and forth from Zim, so I think I might have gone to Zim when I was like 2 or 3, I think. Yeah. And then since then, every couple of years, I've always gone. So I've been to Zim so many times, and my earliest memory would be just being with my grandmother, 'cause my grandmother actually came to the UK, and she actually raised me. And so I've always been really close to her. And then my earliest memory of going back to Zim was with my grandfather, my mum's father. And so my grandmother, who raised me, is my mother's mother. And just being, yeah, being in Zim, and we went to, like, Victoria Falls and Lake Kariba, and doing all the kind of touristy stuff. 'Cause that was when we went with my younger brother when he was about 1 or 2. That was my earliest experience of doing all the fun stuff in Zim, like seeing all my cousins and people being there at the airport. Those were the days when watching planes land was a big thing, and everybody would be at the airport to greet.

Vongai: Oh my gosh, I remember that. 

Vanessa: No more. No one gives a heck whether you've landed or not. Like, okay, I'm bringing the car around. Exactly. But those were the days when literally all of your family would be there to watch the plane land, and they would be there saying, "Hey, they'll meet you at the airport." It was like you felt as if the Beatles had arrived. So that's my first, first experience of being back in Zim.

Vongai: Yeah, I wanna talk about something that isn't like a downer, but it, you know, kind of needs to be talked about because I believe in healing. So you and I have had that similar part of our upbringing where, you know, we didn't really speak Shona. And so, you know, aside from being the only Black people in our classes, like in the UK or wherever we lived in the world, once we were back in Zimbabwe, it was like people treated us like we weren't Zimbabwean enough. Yeah, like because we didn't know the language or like we had accents. And in your case, you know, you were lighter-skinned than most people. Do you wanna talk a little bit about that?

Vanessa: I mean, I think, you know, I remember my aunt saying to me, I was like, "Why are Zimbabweans just so, like, mean to me?" I used to always cry so much, yeah. And she was saying, "Vanessa, you have to understand that Zimbabwe as a country is broken, as in there's a lot of pain in that country and with the people. If you think about from Rhodesia, and that's kind of apartheid segregation, and then now how difficult things are in Zim..." My aunt was like, "Vanessa, you know, if you are a person or a country has been abused since your inception and there's so much pain and suffering, you're not necessarily gonna be the most, you know, loving and light and welcoming people." So that’s kind of where I've made peace with it. And I think growing up, exactly like you know, I was very light-skinned. People thought I was mixed race, and I used to get called like "Murungi" all the time, like a white person, and get made fun of. And I just remember, like, I will never forget the story. Like, my dad's sister—I remember I was at her house and these local kids were bullying me and I was like, "Oh, they called me a white person!" and I was crying. And she never stood up for me, and to this day, I will never forget that. And just how she was just like, "Oh, whatever." Like, I didn’t have anyone there to back me up, to stick up for me, and it was just like a "whatever." And so even when I— I understand Shona because my grandmother, as I mentioned, raised me from when I was like a baby. Yeah, so she couldn't speak English, so she would always speak Shona to me, and that's how I can understand it, like, fluently. Like, I can understand Shona perfectly. But then when I would try to speak it, I would get made fun of because of my accent or I'd say the wrong words. And this is what I mean about Zimbabweans: we really have to be honest with ourselves. We can be mean to diasporas who are trying to speak the language. They would laugh at you, make fun of you, or you can't pronounce this word, rather than with love, correct you and say, "Actually, it was really good, but just say this word." So, you know what? I just thought, you know what, forget it. I don't need to actually learn how to speak Shona. I can understand it, and that's good enough for me. And that's where I am right now. I have no desire to speak it. I can understand it, and that's fine. You know, my grandparents are all deceased, so, ha-ha, so it's like, they just speak English. There's no one that I need to communicate with that's alive. So I'm not, yeah, I just made peace that I'm not gonna try, and it's quite sad. But it’s not because I don’t want to. I'm gonna put the onus on that pain. I've just kind of made peace and just thought, "I'm not gonna beg. It is what it is."

Vongai: Yeah, I think the—it also—I feel like the last couple of years, especially being back in Zimbabwe during the pandemic, I've learned that it kind of goes both ways. While there's, like, you know, the treatment of, you know, how people in Zimbabwe see people in the diaspora as, like, "Oh, maybe they're popping bottles," or "They think they're better than us...And then people in the diaspora being like, "Oh, we have to save the people back home. Like, they need help." Yes, and all of this. So there's kind of like that disconnect because we're all in our kind of bubbles, not thinking we, you know, the grass is greener in one place, or we know what's happening in that place, and just projecting.

Vanessa: Yes, that's—I think, yes, it was a kind of, "What, you're living this life, you don't understand what we're going through?" And it's like, I actually do. I'm actually Zimbabwean. I'm a very proud Zimbabwean. So I guess if someone took a clip, the previous clip, they might take some bite, they might say whatever, you know, but I am a proud Zimbabwean. Yeah, I have your nationality, I have a Zimbabwean passport and a British passport, and I'm a proud Zimbabwean. But in my own way. And literally, I think it's just one of those things where people, like you're saying, they think that we're just sitting here, living "La Vida Loca." I always ask my family, "You come live in the UK, it's a hard life. It's a hard life as well!" 

Vongai: People are always telling me to rest, and I'm like, "Rest? I'm an immigrant in America. I need to literally hustle my way into staying in this country. 

Vanessa: It's not easy, even being born here. I still feel like a—I don’t feel like I'm British, I feel like a 

Vongai: second rate citizen.

Vanessa: And when people always ask me, "Where are you from?" I always say, "Zim, like Zimbabwe." But, you know, it's that misunderstanding and that, you know, I kind of feel like—I like I said, it works both ways. But at the end of the day, I just feel like, I know that I've—you know, you try to engage, and I think it's simple and just respect that this is just where it is. Maybe it's a diasporan, they're not really feeling us right now, and you know what? That's okay. I mind my business. You know, they might think, "Oh, you know, you've got it easy, and we've got it, you know, really hard here." So I think we have to also respect that you can't expect, you know, our fellow Zimbabweans who are living on the ground to be like, "Oh, you know, welcome us with open arms," if they're going through difficult challenges. So we have to, yeah, I always respect that, and I think, "Okay, cool, I received that." Yeah, it's all relative.

Vongai: Vanessa, are you ready for our lightning round?
Vanessa: Yes, I'm ready.
Vongai Yes? Okay, lightning round. What is your zodiac sign? Because you do all the things. Sagittarius. Leo.
Vanessa: I'm Capricorn, girl! Yes!
Vongai: What? I'm Capricorn.
Vanessa: Wait, what's your birthday?
Vongai: December 27th. When's your birthday?
Vanessa: Oh, okay. I'm January the 3rd.
Vongai: Ah, nice! Nice, nice, nice.
Vanessa: My best friend's daughter is born on the 27th of December as well. Yeah! 

Vongai: Nice. Of course! That's why you do all the things so well, because ambition—the ambition is that! Yeah, we got Michelle Obama, we got Love You Jay, we got Easter Egg, we got Denzel Washington, yeah, fellas, brother! Yes! Okay, yes, it's a look at with Debbie Ryan. It's lit.
Yeah, there's a reason why we're represented by the GOAT, because we are the greatest of all time. Exactly! I love that! I just had to let the people know. Okay, last song you listened to?

Vanessa: Hmm, I'll tell you now. The last song I listened to was Kehlani, "It Wasn't Good."
Okay, yeah.

Vongai: If you could have any superpower, what would it be?

Vanessa:To slap people and they don’t know it’s me.

Vongai: I would slap. So many, yeah, honey. Okay, last book you read?

Vanessa: Ah, the last book I read... let me go to my older book because I'm always reading so many books. 

Vongai: Are you reading or are you listening?

Vaness: I listen and I do the hard copy. But the last book I read... so I'm just gonna put that up there so I can give you the actual last book... was The Value in the Valley by Iyanla Vanzant.

Vongai: Okay, we love some Iyanla. Yeah, I showed my mom the clip where she's like, "I'm going to the bush and weep." Because my mom’s at that clip. 

Vanessa: Can you please send me that clip? I’m looking for that clip. Okay, yeah, let me just go in the bush and weep. That’s my life every day.

Vongai: I just want, like, my family members to come together and have a young... just fix their lives and have them communicate with each other.

Vanessa: I don’t know about Zimbabweans. We don’t like anybody outside telling, especially generational... I think with the Zimbabweans being told that they're wrong. My mom? Apologize? Hell no.

Vongai: Oh, okay. Favorite Zimbabwean musician?
Vanessa: Jah Prayzah 

Vongai:  Sweet! Favorite Zimbabwean childhood snack?
Vanessa: Do you know what? I love biltong.

Vongai: Loved it. There’s a South African store here in New York that does biltong, and that was the closest thing to home. Okay, most controversial question of all...
Mazoe orange versus Mazoe green.

Vanessa: Is that even a question? Please, green. Green!
Vongai:  Like, okay, girl. Haha, like really controversial, really. The next one is a power statement: "I am Zim Excellence because..."
Vanessa: Okay, I am Zim Excellence because my ancestors are with me.

Vongai: Wonderful.

Vanessa: If you could nominate someone for the award of Zim Excellence, who would it be?
Uh, my mom.

Vongai:  Oh, love it! And who would you nominate to come on the show?

Vanessa: Oh, my cousin Ralph Mupita. He's really inspiring. So, he's the CEO of MTN.
Nice.

Vongai: Ralph Mupita?
Vanessa: Yeah, Ralph Mupita. He’s, um... yeah, he’s really an inspiring role model.

Vongai: Ralph Mupita, you have officially been nominated on Zim Excellence.

Vanessa, this is so wonderful. It's currently 1:11 in New York, so magical time! As we wrap up, I would love it if you could share a message with our listeners, as well as letting them know where they can follow your journey. You don’t have to spell anything out; it’s all gonna be in the show notes.

Vanessa: "I would say just let's keep flying the Zim flag! Diasporans, those who are in the country—let’s just keep flying the flag. Let’s have our voices heard as well. I'm just a really proud Zimbabwean. I love everything about us—our culture, we're just lit. So let’s just keep being lit!"

Vongai: Amazing. Thank you so much, come back anytime!

Vanessa: "Thanks for having me, it was really a lot of fun!"