Chipo Kureya-Cullen: The Art of Being Human In The Diaspora (2022)

The following episode was recorded on 14th May, 2022. 
 _ _

As an actor credits include Liberian Girl- Royal Court, Fingertips – Clean Break and played the title role of Rapunzel with tutti frutti. In 2014 she made her one-woman debut during the Edinburgh  Fringe Festival, in So What if I Dance. 

Most notably Chipo Kureya was a part of the Original cast of the critically acclaimed Harry Potter and the Cursed Child where she played roles including Moaning Myrtle and Rose Granger- Weasley.

As well as the above she has also been involved with a handful of creative ventures including writing and devising her own work. The Black Actors Accent Room (BAAR) 

Most Recently she has toured Europe as Winnie Mandela in Free Mandela, portrayed Peasblossom in The critically acclaimed A Midsummer Nights Dream  at the Bridge Theatre and guest starred on the Netflix television series Top Boy, as well as Everything I know about Love for BBC and has a role in an upcoming Marvel Feature (can’t say which one) #NDA

Behind the camera Chipo has choreographed for London based chamber rock band Chrome Hoof, singer Kwaye’s video for Cool Kids (2017), Produced Shingai’s video We Roll (2020) and short films, N’ANGA(2021) and MEAT(pre-production).

Website: www.bantucreatives.com

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedamechipo/

Resources Mentioned: 

If you’re interested in how learning how I launched ZimExcellence then you’re in luck. Sign up for my podcast workshop and learn how it’s easier and more affordable than ever to start a podcast. Also, get a copy of my podcast resource guide which covers industry terminology, and suggested tech setup in addition to countless online resources to support your podcast journey. Just head to vongai.com/podcastcreation. 

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched! 
Start for FREE

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Chapters

• 4:38 Chipo's Origin Story
• 25:09 What Being Zimbabwean Means To Her
• 47:30 Black Actors Accent Room
• 1:09:00 Words Of Encouragement

Transcript

Vongai: [00:00:00] Welcome to another episode of ZimExcellence. Today my guest is someone who wears many hats as an actor. Her stage credits include Liberian girl at the Royal Court, her one woman show. So What if I Dance, which debuted at Edinburgh Fringe Festival and most notably Moaning Myrtle and Rose Granger-Weasley in the original cast of Harry Potter and The Cursed Child on the West End. On screen, however, she recently guest starred on the Netflix series Top Boy, as well as Everything I Know about Love for BBC and may or may not have an upcoming role in the Marvel Universe NDAs, y'all ndas.

That's all we gonna say. Aside from acting, she has choreographed for the chamber rock band, Chrome Hoof, and the music video for Cool Kids (2017) by Kwaye. She's also the [00:01:00] founder of Bantu Creatives through which she has produced the short films. And I always find it difficult to say this word N’ANGA (2021) and MEAT, which is in pre-production, as well as the music video We Roll (2020) by Shingai.

Last but not least, she hosts the Black Actors Accent Room, which is a monthly workshop where actors of color have affordable access to authentic accent training. Please welcome, Chipo Kureya! Or should I say Dame Chipo? I have to give her honors. Everyone.

Chipo: Ah, Dame. We like Dame, we put it, we're manifesting things out here,

Vongai: It is so great to have you on this show.

Chipo: Babe, you just gassed me so big. I'm sweating buckets. I'm like, what is she gassing [00:02:00] me?

Vongai: You have to tell people how we met, which is like so funny. So there is this website called We Audition where actors come on where they need help for their auditions and my eyes happen to see a review and the review was basically like, thank you so much Chipo, you were amazing.

And I'm like [00:03:00] Chipo, That's a, that's a Zimbabwean name. And I'm like, who is this lady? Where's this woman? Why can I never catch her? And then I finally caught her online, requested her for two seconds to say, hi, you're Zimbabwean. I'm Zimbabwean I'm following you on Instagram bye . And I probably came off so weird.

Chipo: No, but I love it. I love those kind of interactions and serendipity, synchronous stuff like, and that website is really cool. I dunno if you're allowed to name drop what it is. But it's really a great space to keep it sharp and meet people. And I'm grateful for it cuz we get to be right here, right now.

Vongai: Yes. And that's how we met each other. 

As I said, Chipo Dame Chipo I'm gonna, I'm just gonna call you Dame Chipo for the the rest of this podcast. Okay? Dame Chipo, again, wonderful to have you on the show, an honor. 

Before we get into all the wonderful good stuff about your amazing career and [00:04:00] fabulousness, I'd love for you to take us, back in time. Were you born in Zim or were you like, you moved when you were a baby? Tell us all that jazz. 

Chipo: I'm like ultimate diaspora saka I was born in the UK, in Hospital, South London, 

Vongai: She from South London, y'all Yes

Chipo: south London at late 80s we'll just leave it there . What's always interesting about my being born here story is being in a, predominantly white country. You are. always challenged with that whole, where you really, from question. And of course, because I am very 

black presenting, being from South London sometimes hasn't been good enough a response. But my parents were born in Rhodesia. We call it Zimbabwe now, but at the time we did not have our liberation as of yet. So they actually came into this country. In the 70s as Rhodesians .Saka, they came here [00:05:00] as British citizens. So I like to mess with people often and say, I'm british through and through my, both my parents are British so but obviously we know the truth. Colonies aside, Salisbury born parents, Harare that is now yeah, that's where it all began.

South London Lewisham Hospital, 1980 something. 

Vongai: Remind me of my teachers at acting school that were always like back in 19-blahblahblah and they would do the whole thing haha because you are a ZimExcellence superhero, what is the origin story of Dame Chipo?

Chipo: When I think about the first moment of understanding, Like what it means to tell stories. Everyone in my household is just an incredible orator. My father could go on for days. If you get him on the wrong day, like you'll be there for a long time. ,okay. He can talk and talk. And my mom is social person, so she's around people all the time. She's got that skill. And [00:06:00] I've just been blessed to be in a family where people love people and people are stories. Every single person carries such a huge level of detail and experience. And I think being an actor is such an honor because you get to really delve into humanity. Our job is to express the real feelings that people are going through, the real experiences. And, it affords me the opportunity to actually do the research about what it means to be a, plumber, a road sweep, a politician, an an optician, a surgeon, all of these different worlds. So maybe it's because I'm greedy that I ended up becoming an actor. Cause I, just wanna live all the lives, getting to do this once this time anyway. I still feel greedy for every experience of all the other lives that we have the potential for living. Or maybe that is what do you think

Vongai: It [00:07:00] reminds me of one of my joking reasons of why I do this show is because I'm nosy and I I wanna know all the things and know all the things about all the people and people just very much interest me . Do you recall a moment? In your childhood or teenhood obviously you are still a teenager like me, where you were like, oh, I just really love performing. I really love arts. I really feel seen, I really feel understood. I know for me it was was 16 I always wanted to be actor before that, but like I was, I felt oh, I know like deep in my soul that this is what I wanna do rest of my life I like I'm flying and I feel like I'm most myself. when I was 16 doing Shakespeare. I have such a deep love for Shakespeare. It's ridiculous, dead white guy, but he does this really great job of noting all the classes and it just translates to [00:08:00] so many cultures. Do you recall a memory.

Chipo: I recall lots of memories. I remember being so young, maybe even 5 or 6 and walking with my sister to a bus stop in South London and she asked me what I wanted to be. And I was so young that I don't even know how I knew to say actor, but I knew. I just knew for some reason that's what it was. And later when the fear had set in and my mother asked me, she like what? I wanted to be, and I said I wanted to be like a psychologist or something because everyone I knew was crazy and they needed sorting out or fixing. So there's this weird dichotomy of like. The gut feeling of understanding and knowing when you're so young And so clear, and then what the mind turns that into and on this journey, it's come about that it's both of those things because get to understand the human condition more [00:09:00] by being an actor. 

Vongai: Mm-hmm. 

Chipo: that through that, my five year old lens, and aside from all of those things, I'm in a deeply artistic family every so many people in my family are connected to the arts and involved and are performative in so many ways. Despite the fact that I may have thrown my dad under the bus about being in a bit of a chatter an orator, he's actually provided a really great foundation for that because he's got a real job. He's a doctor. Do you know what I mean? As global majority people in the diaspora, we've not felt the freedom to go into culture because it's too important for us to get a job be a lawyer, be a doctor, engineer, and 

Vongai: Wait. Engineer. I've never heard that one before. I know. I've heard be a nurse, be doctor, a lawyer like the big ones. Do something that's gonna bring in money. 

Chipo: Money, security, just that kind of sense of safe that you're going to be okay. And I think [00:10:00] there's so much for that like, colony and fear and oppression and what we've all gone through and it's in our bones and it's in our dna, but I was really afforded the luxury of parents, two parents who stayed together, loved each other in this whole diversity thing. A dad who gave me the opportunity to feel free to do what it is I want. Some people might hear that and think spoiled brat. and I've got that feeling in my life that, oh my gosh, she just does what she wants. It's because I've got these specific set of circumstances that it's a responsibility that I do what I want, that I live a life that fulfills the dreams of my ancestors, that I can really live as full and many varied experiences of life that I can.

At first it was a core desire and unknowing. then it was a desire to stories and people and now I feel it's a responsibility for storytelling and just to connect to each and every person's humanity. I, love it. I love my work, man.

Vongai: What [00:11:00] you're saying is very much, that first generation struggle of, people not understanding and as you're saying, it's this responsibility that you have. I feel the same way. It's gotten to the point, especially with what happened with 2020 like the of pandemic and It unearthing all the stuff that was there on such a large microscopic level and all of us having all these, discussions about race and inclusion and identity and all of that stuff where I feel it's liberation work at this point. 

I have this wonderful poster. I'm a huge fan of Elaine Welteroth. So she had this project that she had to do at school where she had to show her family. Her dad is white and her mom is black and she had all these magazines in her school. And mind you she's probably like, one of the only black children and biracial children in the class. So she was confused. All these magazine cutouts and [00:12:00] everyone's just like white, so she just had to collage with what they had at the school. She comes back home and her is we're gonna fix this. They get the Jet magazines and Essence and all of that. They're cutting out photos. Black brother, black mom, white dad. There you go. And then the mom would put it up on Elaine's bedroom wall so that she would be able to see herself when she woke up. Based off of that, I created a poster of just black women in the entertainment industry and actors who I think are just absolutely powerful, doing amazing things. Who I admire that way when I woke up, I would be able to see all these amazing women and able to see myself and remind myself what's possible for me. So what's really interesting is when I decided to that collage, Elaine was in one magazines and I was like, yes, my girl, Elaine Welteroth. and she had this quote about, why it's important about not only creating your own [00:13:00] space, but being in spaces where we traditionally weren't seen. So I have this whole thing. We can talk about build your own table. Don't be looking seat at the table. I'm like, do all of it. Be in all spaces. Create your own spaces because it's important. You see it in the fact that 50% of all podcast listeners are women, but less than 50% of podcast shows are hosted by women, and then even less by black women and African women. So basically all that to say is, agree with you. It's important for people to be able to see themselves and see what's possible for them and not be like pushed into boxes of, oh you're black, or you're African, you're Zimbabwe, and you're a woman. These are the jobs you're only ever gonna do." No, that serves no one.

Chipo: Not only that, 

Vongai: Yes,

Chipo: Space for one. As if Yahoo was thinking that, and Google was like, oh no, Yahoo [00:14:00] already serves that purpose. AOL already. And I think that's still a huge struggle because so often, especially when you are diaspora and you are, the only one in the space, so I was the only Black ballet kid. I was the only Black one, the only one. It can feed into your subconscious into believing that in order to succeed there can only be one of you. And that's so to our growth and our sisterhood as well. And I think it's far too simple to be like, oh yeah, Queens see queens .When really hundreds of conditioning has actually taught us the opposite.

These institutions have taught us the opposite. And even this person, she had to work so hard, she had to go home then be propped up by her mother to be seen. But when you're in the workplace that and you've heard these other images where there's just tokenism, it's just . It makes it even more important, the kind of work they were doing because it's not good enough for there to be one.

And I'd [00:15:00] be brave. And you be brave. More of us need to be brave and saw, heard a quote earlier today from Larry Moss, another white guy. 

He said when I say there is only one of you in the world, it will never happen again.

Like I don't know if you even get it or if everyone gets it, but like me, saying to you right now that there's-

Vongai: Oh, trust me, this moment we're having again in the way that it's happening and unfolding right now. Girl, I'm spiritual. I'm spiritual. You preached to choir I live for this

Chipo: You are ahead because that I had to hear that a few times. Hold on a second, cuz people wanna, even at the beginning of this call, you're like, oh girl, she did this, she did that. Yeah, I did that. But what about right now. There's only me, right? There's a choice I'm making right now. Am I gonna [00:16:00] fold and just go back and have a nap, which is so easy to do.

Vongai: It reminds me of this quote, I think it was Deepak Chopra. Something about if our mind is on the future when we're in the present, then when we're in the future, our mind will be in the past . Basically be present and it's a recurring theme. Especially when it comes to performance and creating and acting where you have to be present with your scene partner because anything could happen. Just like in real life, you have to be present because anything could be unfolding. Just like right now, we're practicing listening with each other, and sometimes that can be hard for me cause I'm like, oh, you just made 

think of something. And I'm like, no. Listen, 

Chipo: yeah, no, that's really tough. And there are a lot of professional actors out there who actually haven't got that concept down that listening. And there's a book by incredible director, and it's called [00:17:00] Different Every Night. Have you heard of this book.

 It's an acting text by an incredible director whose name I've forgotten. But the notion of being different every night means that you are present every night. You are present for what happens in that moment. But the unfortunate thing about being in...Let's say a West End production. Don't know which one or any one of these big shows, or even going to somewhere like McDonald's. 

Let's use a different Every time you go there, you expect it to be the same. You don't want your Big Mac to taste differently. That's What's called branding, isn't it? So if you go into a West End production, people are expected to hit the same marks every night. They're supposed to sing the song in the same way because that's called being consistent. 

But there's a magical middle ground of being consistent and being honest and truthful about what you're performing and delivering, but also allowing the moment to take hold of you. And that's why we need trained people to be [00:18:00] doing this kind of work. That's why we need directors who don't expect people. Who don't expect actors to be pawns that are just moved around, but listening full beings that are sharing something very vulnerable on stage. I worked with an actress once who, I don't like her at all. I'm not gonna name her name, but I remember we were rehearsing a scene and she was, angry because I did something different and she wasn't expecting it. And for the rest of the time I was working with her, she was frustrated with me Because I was throwing her under the bus. Now, who knows, maybe an earlier version of myself probably was had more ego inside of her. But there's also a part of me that thinks this person I was working with didn't have the flexibility to allow a real moment to happen. So when I was having with her, it threw her. And that's why you need to really learn your lines by rote, okay? People, [00:19:00] anyone on here who is an actor learn your lines so well that if someone has a real moment with you, you still know what you are doing. you understand what I'm saying 

Vongai: Yeah, sometimes it's also, I feel like it's vulnerability. We're just so afraid as human beings to be so vulnerable and open. So sometimes that triggers people to close up that might be a different discussion for another day. 

Chipo: And we project. 

Vongai: It's also my ongoing lesson. Yeah. Yes, we project what we see in other people, forgetting that the other person in front us mirror sometimes reminds us of the things in ourselves that we're not proud of. or that we are proud of. So it's like when you see someone and you think they're amazing, it means there are qualities in yourself that also have potential.

Speaking of the West End, would you like to talk about your time in HP 

Chipo: Babe. Oh, that chestnut. [00:20:00] It was 

Vongai: I only ask just because I myself auditioned for a Rose Granger Weasley and went up to the movement call, this was back 

in 2018 or 2019 and went up to to the movement call 

can't

it's not choreography, but it feels like choreography. So they had us doing first of all, they had us doing what's it, the planks and all that stuff, which was fine.

Luckily came for planks and we did the planks and the

high fives and all that, And I'm okay, I'm prepared. This is like 

movement class at acting school again. This is great. But then we got wand dance. 

I 

Chipo: knew you 

were gonna she's doing counts and things. 

Vongai: Mind you, I hadn't seen the show yet. and then when did like, nah it's wrap it's okay. I can see it ain't for me. It's fine. And then years later I did happen to see the 

both parts.

And I [00:21:00] 

was yep, that's that dance. 

Couldn't do it. . 

which 

Very physical show to say. 

Yeah.

Chipo: Yeah, I think Harry Potter was an amazing kind of intersection for me because I'd done up until that point, I'd been the center of and a very big deal. Like I'd done a tour of Rapunzel and I was Rapunzel. I'd done a one woman show and it was me and I was in this two hander called Fingertips, which was just about ladies who'd crossed over from Ethiopia and cascaded in like the Mediterranean.

Like I had been really forging my path, but not in a very sort of commercial or very recognized way in, in the big time. And I changed agents and within three weeks of changing agents, I booked HP. It was like

A springboard for so many things because being on Harry Potter was such a [00:22:00] humbling experience because I was what you call a swing. So it meant that I did the show in so many different capacities. I think in the in, in the nearly two years I was there, maybe 18 months I was there, I did the show in maybe 16 different capacities because you have to cover people who are on holiday, who are sick, who are away.

That's why I was able to play Rose Granger Weasley. I was able to play Moaning Myrtle. I was able to play the Dementors. A lot of people have seen that show, but, and it meant that I knew that show inside. But it also played into my strength of movement because I am someone who is a mover, who is a dancer in a room full of actors.

I'm a dancer in a room full of dancers. There's Do you know what I mean?

Vongai: That show is for you. That show is for

was so that felt 

Chipo: like it was made for me. And it was made for so many in my journey in what it meant for the springboard I needed to be [00:23:00] in certain rooms. The relationships I created, the the capacity to understand different parts of the industry.

Like it was an amazing time to be alive. And there were challenges. There were so many challenges I had to navigate. And yeah definitely a lot of challenges. That, I think I was part of the original cast in 2016, and so that was what.

Four, five years before George Floyd, let's just leave it there.

Do you know what I mean? So it was before, yeah, it was before we really had the ease and comfort to speak about things that we're really pushing up, up against now.

I'm proud of myself and of that time and and I'm so grateful 

that I was at the inception, I was at that period of time where we were making it, we were really creating it because now it has no choice but to be a quality product that is reproduced 

here, there, and everywhere.

So it means that, it doesn't mean that the actors are no less alive [00:24:00] or present, but it is

McDonald's, it is hit the mark here, hit that there. Hit. Or Dream Girls or Lion King or any other show that you expect to see at a professional level that is great with fantastic people working because they have to audition to be in it. 

But,

Being a part of an original company, I don't

think there's anything like it. And I really pray that I get the opportunity to be a part of another original company, like it. It was amazing.

Vongai: You will we're manifesting this on this the where you manifest things they're like, like that

 We had that moment where I saw you and I I was was like another Zimbabwe person. Who is this person? When there are so few of us, you end up being an unintentional ambassador or representative of your country, of your culture, of your heritage. 

So how do you feel about that? 

Chipo: What's that saying? Some are born great, some have greatness thrust upon them, and some become great. I don't know which [00:25:00] I particularly fall into, but 

because of who I am and why I am, and the position and time and space that I live in, I've been afforded this opportunity.

Not only is it a responsibility, it's an opportunity. and I echoed this yesterday because 

I had 

the immense 

pleasure of reading a novel. I did an audiobook yesterday. 

Have you ever done one?

Vongai: I love! An audiobook? I haven't done an audiobook yet. I've done voiceover. I've auditioned for audiobooks, but I haven't done one 

Chipo: so I auditioned and. 

I had a really bad experience with my last audio book. I was like, I'm gonna do a really good audition. So I 

went into a studio with my uncle and he helped me with the Shona because 

it was by a Shona writer, a Zimbabwean writer by the name of Panashe. 

Vongai: Now I'm jealous. 

Chipo: Her name is Panashe Chigumadzi.

 Girl.

This book, I'm gonna tell you the 

title. These Bones Will Rise Again. 

[00:26:00] Can I 

Vongai: Already I'm intimidated. 

Chipo: like tingles everywhere? I remember reading it the first time cried at the end, and then even in the studio yesterday. I got to the end. I got to the 

end and 

cried all over again. Like the honor it

feels, and I 

didn't get to read that.

I, if I was not a Zimbabwean woman, I would not have the opportunity, because there are things only resonate with us who understand 

the specific struggle, the specific nuances, the 

specific lack of 

Yeah.

The lack of the rootlessness. The unsteadiness that it means. Zimbabwe, lots of people 

can be ekumusha, etotem unoera chi? All of these things.

But there's something also balancing about being a Zimbabwean 

we've gone through some stuff and, it

Vongai: the resilience. 

Chipo: It's all about resilience building and that book, being able, being [00:27:00] given that responsibility, I don't take it lightly. It was an honor and it was one that I was able to sit through the whole way and just deliver, because I am Zimbabwean and it's mad because I know that there are gonna be Arabian ladies out there who get the honor because they speak Farsi or Nigerian ladies 

who get the honor because they speak yoruba but

all I know is me and 

what I'm doing here, and I got to read that. And 

that is epic. I'm still buzzing from it. So I have to lift up Panashe because she wrote a banger and

I really can't wait until that that book, becomes available. And you're able, to read it and invite her here as well to talk to. 

Vongai: What does being Zimbabwe mean to you?

Chipo: Everything is followed by an anecdote. 

Let me just let you know. 

Vongai: I love this. 

 Earth signs are deep people. 

 We have to take it deep 

Chipo: Taking it deep all the way. When someone asks you, oh, where you're from and you cut around all the crap and you're like, yeah, I'm from [00:28:00] Zimbabwe.

The following conversation always has to take place. And where I I am and how I feel, and just the reading of their expression.

 When you say someone that you are from Zimbabwe and then you have to take that second where you figure out like, what their opinion is on that. Whether they're like, "Oh, are you Shona?" and you're like, oh, great, we've got an expert. Yeah, tell me all. 

Vongai: May I just I 

feel Like, 

I, there are three different versions of the answer. It could like they don't know too much about Zimbabwe, they just know it's Africa and they're like. "Oh, I've always wanted to go". Or "Oh I've been to Kenya". 

Which is like, nowhere near Zimbabwe Or this. "Oh, so sorry about your country." Usually these will be South Africans, especially white South Africans, who will then be like,

" Oh I'm sorry how are things?" blah, blah, then three what was the third one? [00:29:00] It's oh, maybe they'll ask you how you feel about a political leader.

Chipo: Yes, we know who you're talking about Exactly. And that's why racism is a real thing. That's why we can't beat around the bush. Act like, we don't live in a white supremacist blue planet. You know white people go anywhere on the planet And for some reason what they say is taken for gospel and we, they need to approve everything that we're saying despite the fact that we may have receipts and archives or no archives because they've been burnt or do you know what I mean? 

Vongai: yeah. 

Chipo: What I feel about being Zimbabwean is immense pride. Like I'm proud of who I, am, I'm proud of my parents and who they are and what they've gone through. I'm proud of ancestry and totems and balancing rocks and like guns and blood 

and spirit and drums. 

Vongai: The way you said guns scared me.

Chipo: No, because I think, [00:30:00] and this. is definitely something that I got from reading Panashe's book, sometimes people aren't really honest about what it takes to get freedom. Like really what it takes, What we are what we sacrifice, what we have to go through to ensure that we really are 

free. Like you and I on this podcast now. What if our parents didn't? What if our mothers didn't? What if this, that, what is the the trauma

or the suppression or the silencing of yourself or

your opinion or thoughts that took us being here? So I've got no choice but to be proud of who I am for being alive and present in this moment and that is Zimbabwean. So I can't really take one away from the other. And if I was Yoruba, if I was a Yoruba person and 

I was Nigerian, then I'd have to be proud of being that person. Or I'd need to go to therapy and discover myself and do [00:31:00] The Artist's Way or whatever it is to become okay with 

myself. But because I am Zimbabwean because I am me, and I am here, I am proud. 

Vongai: I love that. You've got your wonderful artistic family, Zimbabwean family around you. So I'm, guessing you know that's always been a way for you to have Zimbabwean community around you. But how else have you been able to cultivate Zimbabwean community and also artistic community, whether it's like fellow actors or choreographers?

Chipo: Yeah, no, that has been really tough because my parents came here before Zimbabwe even got independence. 

Vongai: So you were probably one of the first families? 

Chipo: Yes and my, my sisters were born in the UK in 1980. So, they were like the first born free, but not born at home, and so it was really, and so at that period of time in the [00:32:00] UK especially, To be African was to be asking to be taken advantage of or taken the piss out of, or bullied essentially. It was only fashionable if you are Black to be of Caribbean heritage, yeah. Yeah. could be was Jamaican. And so there wasn't community, there was the Africa Center where my parents met where everyone who was Black just essentially went. Or there was pretending to be Jamaican so that you weren't, so that you could fight against the other strains of racism that you were dealing with in the 80s and 90s. 

Vongai: That is so, very real. I remember even like growing up in Beijing, we wanted, we would want to identify anything aside from Zimbabwean, which is very shameful to say, but it 

it was like you would rather identify as being faux Asian or being European, or being from the Caribbean [00:33:00] than say Zimbabwe or say African. And if you're gonna say African, at least say South African or Nigerian or Ghana because they sound cool like Will Smith and Beyonce have been out there, but don't say Zimbabwe which is terrible to say, but that's what it felt like growing up. 

Chipo: Lots of countries around the planet were

colonized by the French, by by all sorts. But in Zimbabwe, in 

that kind of Rhodesia space, we were a lived in colony. That's not same as what went on in West Africa where they claimed it and then got their money from the oil and just tried to keep a hold of some stuff. A live in colony.

That means when my mom was born, she was born into a 

society where she was oppressed in Africa by thousands of white people around her in Africa, on the soil of her ancestors. [00:34:00] And yet she went to a B school. Yet she was told that she can't wear traditional clothes. She can't, be afforded a certain kind of education. My mom's, her first job was in the hairdresser. In the country of her birth in Africa, and she 

would have to wash their hair through gloves in a wall because they didn't want her Black hands touching 

their hair in Africa. Do you understand what I mean? So 

conditioning of what we are is not good enough.

 Mandiwona kusviba mati kuwora  

and translated that means you've seen me dark or Yeah. you've seen my dark skin and you've said that it means I'm rotten. Like it's culture that we should feel shame. Like the shame culture in Zimbabwe is so strong that if I wear the wrong length of skirt, I'm deemed a prostitute.

Like even now. People from everywhere else can do what they like. But we have been. Shamed out of having a [00:35:00] culture shamed out of having dress shamed out of so much stuff that it is actually in defiance. And maybe nharo (stubbornness), that I, decide to be proud of, I decide to defend myself, and I decide to actually point the finger where it deserves to be pointed. And I will say, we were colonized. We were colonized by white people who came over and told us that the only way to exist is through Christianity and by doing what we do. And that something that people need to really open up themselves to and admit, because my light-skinned cousin is more favored by my grandmother because that thing. It's real. It's really real. 

Vongai: Yeah. Colorism is so real. I've had these conversations with my biracial cousin. Shout out to her if she's listening to this. I'm not gonna name drop her. Back in 2020 I was on the phone with her I was like, "you don't know this, I used to feel all this type of way when [00:36:00] you are around, because I noticed when you' were around...this would happen with our other cousins or like with my mom or like whoever. And it just made me feel like, oh, I'm like undeserving in your presence. And that had nothing to do with you. So sometimes I like, I felt this type of way about you and

obviously you didn't know I felt way and you weren't doing anything. It was like the people around us were almost pitting us or pitting light skin and dark skin against each other and she was like .That is so interesting you say that. And then she talked about her experience going to school and she was raised with a lot of like her cousins and like at siblings and they're darker skinned. And so she went and sat with the dark-skinned girls, with I guess you'd say black but not mixed girls. And so everyone was like, oh why are you sitting with us? like, why aren't sitting with the white girls? Or why aren't you sitting with the mixed girls? And [00:37:00] she was confused. She was like, what do you mean? Because she was raised in a household where everyone around her has darker skin what do you mean I can't sit here? 

Chipo: Yeah, It's it is really wild. and I don't think it's, something we are going to address or come through easily or soon, but I think it's a that needs to keep happening and it's a conversation that I need to keep addressing because my partner is a white man. And it's so weird because I've spent so many of my years talking about how they did us wrong and X, y, and z. But ultimately, guess where I was born? Yes, ndiri muZimbabwean, but I was also born in South London. I was born in this culture. I understand this culture. I speak to my partner and we understand each other in a way that I'm not gonna understand my grandmother because she's of a different time and space but we don't understand each other. I can speak her language [00:38:00] just about, but then it starts to get a bit, my, my hodgepodge language. It gets, it escapes me. 

Vongai: I feel like that's why it's important to have these conversations like on And moves back to what she said about being the only one and why it's important to this work. I someone, them, that I would tell you off the record when we're not recording, told was releasing a podcast and I invited them on. They were like, yeah, sure, cool. Yeah, I'll look at the stuff. and then they were like, let me give you some unsolicited advice. and I was like, no, please don't. You're gonna ruin the moment like I've just told you about. And granted, at that point I was calling this a secret project. Not many people knew was planning to launch this podcast. They were like, yeah, there all these others Zimbabwean podcasts and shows and things. What's gonna set you apart? Because I've seen these shows and people don't support them, I just don't want you to set yourself up to fail. I 

was like, wow.

Like I was hurt by that. I bring this [00:39:00] up because that's why feel important to have, us from around the world

so that we can learn and understand, our different experiences and what we're going through. Because there's this like assumption that, the people who never left, they're just so in tune with their culture and they're like, Zimbabwean and then there's this other assumption that the people who left or were displaced. Displacement is also like a great term to use that were displaced or forced out or what, whatever. We also have to think about, there's this assumption that the grass is greener in the west or outside the country or that people are popping bottles and then they're super rich. There's one portrait where maybe one person's doing well, but then there's also the other portrait of the person who is a 

nurse or, the person who has to work three different jobs just to provide for their child in that new life. And they may 

not have the support of family that you do when you're kumusha and you [00:40:00] have the village behind you. And it's important to hear these things. Like I think about how my listens to and my mom's friends listen to this. And maybe people have never left country who are able to begin to 

understand. 

Chipo: It's about gaining that perspective. Because even if other people have done a podcast and they've fallen on their face, that podcast, those people and you don't know those people. But this podcast is reaching these people and both people deserve to be served even if they're not served same thing, it's not your responsibility to feed everybody.

I keep going back to McDonald's and they're not paying me any money or endorsement, but like it's not up to McDonald's to provide every single person burgers. That's why they're why there is a Burger King 

Vongai: Yeah. I'm going to Shake Shack 

Yeah.

Chipo: there we go. That's why there is a Five Guys. And it's so crazy because even though so often culturally we believe that those people [00:41:00] who never left home are more connected or it, they might have more dexterity with the tongue and the language.

But I have found it's people in the diaspora who have a hunger for our culture more, that want more of going home because they have a full experience and a full understanding of what it means to live in the white man's land or just away from home. They understand what it means to be other or different.

And this takes me back to when I got onto a plane, cuz I came, I went to Zi, I went back and forth to Zimbabwe throughout my childhood. But when I was about eight years old, I stayed for a longest stint and it was 14 years until I went back to Zi and I was what, 2021 or something And I got off the play.

She still is 21.

She's been 21 for time, a long time, so I

Does not ageism. Anyway.

Moisturize and uv. Don't take it for granted. That melanin just [00:42:00] sunblock.

and hydration is key. Drinking game water. you saying, Dame Chipo, have the mic.

So I get off the plane and because my kind of preteens, teens very early twenties have been spent in this country kind of fighting for my rights to be alive and to be black and to be Zi, to get off the plane and see black people everywhere blew my mind. Sometimes people in this country don't realize that as people who are born in the dra, our minds also get blown when we are in a country where majority people are.

The road sweep, the bank manager, the politician, the teacher, everyone was black, and I could smell the air as I got off at the airport and I cried. I cried. I remember crying. I was like is this what it means to belong? Of course, I learned very shortly that I'm sad. No

Vongai: [00:43:00] Exactly. I'm like, like belong. Wow, you had a great introduction. Mine was why you got a a British accent. Obviously they wouldn't say that, but at the time when I first Zimbabwe, I was eight years old and like, so I grew up in, I was in London from when I was a baby till I was about eight. And then we moved back to Zimbabwe and had a very British posh North, north London in the house, London accent, Hill, north London accent.

And the bullying, till this day I'm still. Untangling that trauma and doing the healing. A lot of healing has been done, there's some residual out that like, oh, you still have to address that.

Chipo: Yeah, we have to work so hard because of the 

work that hasn't been done. And I spoke about it previously with 

with your podcast, how there's space for that and there's space for this. And I spoke about it with Queen thing [00:44:00] as well. We don't need to be the only one. And so of course going back there might have well been an element of jealousy around those people who didn't have a full understanding of what it meant for you and your displacement. You are needing to go from country to the next. They didn't embrace you or take care of you in that way because of their own desire to be anywhere. But here, that thing that you said the grass being greener, we are. From having these conversations opening up our perspectives. Even though I was born in South London,

year in lu, 

Yeah. I lived there for a lot of my life, but my parents moved to Kent, babe south London. There were 

other black people. I could have a career, I could slick my hair down at the sides. I was going to bus stops and holding my hand like this. 

Once I Kent, suddenly I was the only one, and it wasn't good enough be with the other black girls in the class or, go to bus stops and eat chicken from boxes, [00:45:00] whatever.

Suddenly I was the only one, and that there responsibility that I felt for being the only one. But there was also the work that I did to almost feel like I deserved it to the research that I had to do to prove how black I was. It's hard. It's such hard. I'm not that type of black person. I'm the good black person. I'm the the educated black person, politics, good black crown, we're like you're the black, the.

Vongai: Before we into lightning round, because I wanna mindful of your time, wanna hear a about, this actually ties in what we're talking about, black accent

room. all of you're doing there, cause that's awesome. 

Chipo: Oh my God. The black access accent room is my youngest.

Vongai: gotta talk about it before let you go. 

Chipo: Yeah, definitely. Okay, so be in of the global [00:46:00] majority in in the UK with RAM based. It's voice and accent training is very white LA middle class white lady focused. So any voice accent coaches, you're 80 to 90% of them are gonna be white middle class ladies. And that's really important because they've got the time, skill And the train to Do that work. But it just means that when you are off the global majority or when you're a black lady or black guy or from anywhere that Lang Island or crew, your specific needs aren't being taken care of. And there are so many apps and stuff where they have got lots of resources for Celtic accents, for instance, or American accents or, and they're accents via the white lens most of the time.

Not and it just means that as an actor, [00:47:00] when you're trying to train your instrument and become as dextrous and strong as possible, when your storytelling, you might not have the resources you need. and I think as a black person, I've always felt like I wanna be able to step into this accent that, that accent because of the stories that I wanna be able to tell. and so that's black accent was gonna be? important. because even when it comes to having an American accent, , there's the way That Tiffany sounds in Sweet Valley High, but there's also the way that, precious sounds in in that, and it's different because she black, she's not a white lady. And I just wanna make sure that we have access to accents that that, make the most sense for our needs. And so I've got this room it's 

once a month and we look at, we just zoom in on a different accent of the globe majority. And the most important thing is that it's accessibly priced. Like when you wanna see someone who is a voice and accent coach, [00:48:00] it can cost you maybe $70 or 80 pounds or whatever. That's a lot of money for a lot of people who maybe have been told, be an engineer or be a doctor, be a lawyer because of the the 

global disparity in economy. Yeah. having these workshops, it means the price is greatly 

reduced. For $20, you can participate and really get the tools your needs to go back and work on the accent 

further. And if that's not accessible, 10 pounds means that you don't participate as such, but you get to view and learn from the people who are participating in the workshop. It's about opening your mind to what is possible as a professional actor and as the coach as well, because it's my mission to only employ accent coaches of the globe Majority.

I'll see how far I go. 

Vongai: Which is so fascinating, especially because the way it sound everyone's like mouth can [00:49:00] be different. And there are so many accents in the South, dialects in the south. It was, I follow this Instagram, Latin diaspora. It's a page I learned so much about, especially there's this concept, there's this like idea especially it's been like perpetuated US that Latin people or that being from the Latin dipo.

Makes it race, actually an ethnicity because you can Latin white and can be Latin black obviously mixed. A of people are mixed, but there's this idea that it's like a race, but it isn't. And I never thought it was a race, but then I like moved here and then I like thought it it was a race because some people would be like yeah, like I'm also pressed. I'm like, I'm Latino. And So I was like, oh,

okay. It's a race. And then I'll hear it from my shout out to my really great friend [00:50:00] were telling me, it was was like, no, you can't about what's it, I forget what term She used. If something along the lines of, if there are black this,

then why don't we say there's white this? We never say that. We just say, Like this, and basically I'm following the Afro Latin diaspora page, and it clues me into so much history about the Caribbean and Latin America and just that section of the world on just how many black people there are. just also like the mixing, like there is like huge of Asian people in Peru who obviously like visually look and are Asian, But they're also latino as well, so like breaking that down. But then some people will be like, oh, where are you from? And it's Hey, I'm born raised here. I literally speak language. you hear my accent? but then and that is also interesting to [00:51:00] consider that's how you're like, yeah. Being Latin isn't a race because you are 

Chipo: This is the box ticking, hodgepodge. We're gonna really soon, because like I said to you, I was born here. I speak with this accent. I've got heritage for of Zimbabwe. That's my direct lineal heritage. But my kids are gonna look very different to me, so they're not gonna have the questions and answers. And what about if the guy I married was an Indian guy? Do you know what I mean? Was that And moved to to, to Greenland like people's. Desire to hold onto a category for individuals is, it's fasting old, and I dunno, when we're gonna start like allowing ourselves to be human beings and pan human beings, like how long is it gonna be? Very important. It's important now because of racism, and what's making it important [00:52:00] because people's desire to identify, I am here on the pecking order. That means my hair flows, but there's no bounce in my curl. It means I'm here, it means I'm here. It means I can do that, but when is it gonna stop being important? 

Vongai: Yeah, so I bring up that 

Afro Latin Dipo on Instagram in relation to, the fact that the next will be on the south region States, because there 

was a thread, one of the most recent posts

was on someone had posted about oh, this is the Louisiana accent. This is how this person sounds. then someone had, said on TikTok or Britney Spears doesn't And she's region. someone then replied to that TikTok in video being like, has made assume that there is one type of southern accent or one type of Texas accent or Louisiana or this, you guys need to travel out south more because are like multiple. And [00:53:00] went to town talking about like in this one area of the same state, there was an influence of this many people. So if you're from this area, you'll sound more like this And in this area there's this, and then the following posts of that thread, you would see people doing like the Mississippi accents and all these different accents to like varying different, like very thick, not so thick. And then also despite like skin colors. So you know, you can have, Asian people who sound very Jamaican and by Asian I guess are like traditionally, like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, that area sounding very Jamaican cuz they grew up in the caribbean and you can also have, white people talking like sounding how you assume black accent. But that's a lot, basically a lot of what black culture and African American vernacular and we [00:54:00] from the south. And we don't give the south enough respect that sometimes you'll hear someone who is white from the south sounding similar to what you, in your mind have considered a black scent and be like, oh, they're appropriate.

And like south. That's how people in that area that's fascinating untangle for

Chipo: Yeah. Oh no, I completely appreciate that. And 

I can't wait for you to send that to me cuz I wanna 

Yeah, I'm definitely saying that to you. Okay, . 

Vongai: Ooh, I have so many questions, but again, I have

to let you go soon. One more question then lightning round. you feel that?

okay. As 

dame people, as in the beginning when One embarks on the untraditional path, journey, it can be exciting, but also potentially overwhelming. Advice, someone, have, for someone listening right, now. might be thinking, I wanna do what Chibo does, I wanna do all the things, I wanna dance, I wanna sing, wanna [00:55:00] act, I wanna produce, I wanna be a boss B. But I'm not quite sure where to start. Are there any resources, whether books, podcasts, websites, classes that you can recommend aside from 

obviously black Room? 

Chipo: Yeah, of course. Do you know what anyone who wants it have? I know that seems like really almost seems like shitty advice, isn't it? But because it does feel shitty. I'm even saying it and I'm like, it seems shitty, but. The resources are there, the classes are there, the podcasts are there, but it's not, I'm not being treated to be on purpose.

I'm not being treated on purpose. It's about you identifying really what you want, because I, feel like I have this conversation with people too often where they're Like, oh my God, what should I do? What should I do? And when I get around to it and talk to them, they haven't actually identified what [00:56:00] they want.

They just know having the conversation because they can see that I'm doing something nice, but they don't actually know what it is they want.

If you want it, you are gonna get it, honey. but that means that you need to take care of yourself. Stop what you are currently doing. If you're not happy, stop what you are currently doing.

Is the first step. And some space, even if it's 10 minutes before you go to your job, that you hate to think about. What is it that has the potential to make me happier than I am right now? What is it that I love to actually do and do that? what is it that I am I'm interested in? And then do that too.

Do you know what I mean? That's literally the that I can give you because I can give you a list of all sorts of podcasts, but, and you got Google, and you got , YouTube, Google, all those things. Classes are there, [00:57:00] podcasts are there. Type in acting, type in this type in writing, type in horse riding, type in producing, type in writing.

Turn up at a film set. Do you know what I mean? Stand it. You don't need to work very hard to know where the films are being made. L Street,

Go to go there, stand outside. Do you know what I mean? Phone their box office it doesn't take any, I'm getting angry now because too many people have asked me this question without doing the most simple thing of even identifying it. 

is they actually want.

Do you just want to be rich uhhuh. down the stairs and put on TikTok? Do you know. what I mean? Like that it could be that simple , cause people will watch it a hundred thousand times. or is the story important to you? Is writing is presenting important to you? 

I said I said what? I 

Okay.

Vongai: She said what she said. All right. Are you ready for our lightning round? 

Chipo: absolutely. 

Vongai: Okay. [00:58:00] Condensed round. Are you an early bird or a night owl? 

Chipo: I I love going to bed like, so if I'm out past to later time, I start to get real crabby, but I can wake up early and do 

early bird for sure. 

Vongai: sweet. Okay. Do have a favorite or TV show that you're currently watching or this past year or the past, award season. 

Chipo: At the moment. I'm watching Grey's Anatomy. I'm literally, I started from the beginning a couple of months ago, so I'm and yeah, I'm here for.

Here for it. 

Vongai: If you have any what 

Chipo: Oh my gosh. To time hop. 

that. I feel like you can do that in in real time. Quantum jumping is real. 

Sometimes I feel like how did we get 

here?

Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's something about collecting them receipts [00:59:00] or like really having,

Oh yeah. 

Vongai: Go back to be like you said back in 

1982,

Chipo: I'm not being funny. Exactly this Yeah. I don't know. The first thing that came to my mind was being invisible, but then I thought, that's only cheeky. What does that help you apart from just knowing information and like I'd spent, I'd probably save on train fair by being invisible. Do you know what I mean?

That's what I can genuinely 

Vongai: I wanna be like, I would at least wanna fly. My, my power, my 

superpower I figured this out in a previous episode, I think it was with Za, and then I jago about this. would be like, I'm always listening to music And a lot of music is sampled, so I'll be like like humming something I've 

heard. This is from something. It's, and then I'll figure out what it is, but sometimes I don't figure it out as quick as I wanna do. So Joe came up with a 

name for this, he called it Shazam brain. So like, yeah, I have Shaza [01:00:00] brain I hear something and I'm like, samples That 

Chipo: Do you know what would be really great if you could have

a dial for your superpower? How there's a good bad, like I'd have visible or time hop and you could adjust how strong your power

So I could go full of visibility, but then I have no time hopping capability.

Or I'd go like half. So I could only, I don't know, be a little bit invisible or or maybe, I don't know the time, the half, but I'd only be able to travel a week or two in the past or something. Do you know what I mean? Like a.

Vongai: As someone who is potentially may or may not hashtag NDAs, y'all. NDAs be joining the mcu. Is there a Marvel superhero that you like, or are you like a DC girl or you create your own superhero? You are your own superhero.

Chipo: Mate, I'm working on this hybrid kind of dial it superhero in my mind. Next time we talk I'm gonna have this nailed. I'm gonna understand what it [01:01:00] means to be able to dial up one super strength and dial down the other

I want wonderful. because maybe what happens when you are invisible is that you can go through walls. So maybe like down means that you can't go through the wall. So you've got the thing where you are allowed and you things are affected, but you are more surreptitious if you are a hundred percent. Cause you can go through things as well. We're working on it. We're working on it.

Vongai: Okay. Favorite Zimbabwe childhood snack.

Chipo: came to mind straight away because I love popcorn still up to this very day. That is my one snack

Yeah, but the other

mom's well.

was ma orange. It's not a snack, but

Vongai: Pause. Pause. It's time for the most controversial question.

she's going

[01:02:00] Masoe versus Masoe Green.

Chipo: I pan contest orange all day, every day.

Cool. Yeah, you, was like, you can't answer the I asked is the most important one.

Vongai: Okay. next one is a power statement. am ZimExcellence because

Chipo: It seems so corny. I am ZimExcellence because I am like, because I am fully here. I am I it.

anything more than that. I am, 

Vongai: If you could nominateould someone for the award of ZimExcellence, who would be?

Chipo: My sister . Yeah. Oh my God. I would still, I would definitely nominate 

Vongai: she's been mentioned on this podcast before on Yasha MA's episode. 

Chipo: No, there's no 

Yeah. She incredible in so many ways and 

Vongai: Actually you have two sisters. yeah, twins. 

I'm gonna assume we're talking about the same sister. 

Chipo: Yeah. So [01:03:00] the one who, yeah, the person who you assume are speaking about. I will definitely give an award. And she's amazing. She's incredible. 

Okay. Hopefully one day you'll 

be able to get her on the show. I'll tell her about it.

Maybe, yeah,

Vongai: She follows me. she f because I think Java posted something, or maybe it was 1980 T-shirt company

Yeah.

because I use a, lot lot music in on, so on the ZimExcellence. Podcast account. When I post things, I use a lot of music because try to use artists on just on that account. But I tagged myself in it because have my own account. VongaiOfficial follow Me all. then I think T-Shirt Company reposted reel. I did when I got their merch and I was using we, I was using, we Roll actually, cuz love song. We roll and then , they [01:04:00] tagged me and then she followed me and I was like, happened. Yeah. So it was great. 

Chipo: No, that's amazing. No, as amazing as she appears to all people, 

She is that amazing. She I remember going once to am a lecture at SOS and there was a lecture happening about black

Vongai: That's my mom's school. 

Chipo: Is it, 

look SOAS. look at this. It's too much. I there and they were just talking about, black hair icons, blah, blah, blah.

And the normal conversation came up about how we don't have examples of people wearing their natural hair. And they were like does anybody know anyone who wears their natural hair? And then no one had anything to say. And then I was like, sh. And they're like, yes. Oh my God. She's the only one. And I was, like, I know she's the only. It's my sister. She's the only one, 

Vongai: Yeah. 

Chipo: Yeah repping and [01:05:00] being authentic for so long that it's actually laughable. People wanna claim that they, that's why It's hard for me to enjoy music if I'm gonna be completely honest with you, because I've been around music, I've been in music. I'm not constrained by genres or the way . Supposed to sound when you are black or what's allowed or what's fashionable. Because I have a sister whose music transcends genders and who is brave enough to be? in a rock band and wear her hair natural and do all these things. That's same womb. If we're coming from the same womb, like what? 

Vongai: Shout out your mom. The power.

Chipo: I can't come here. and hear your interpretation music like your faux rapper music. Like when people tell me like, oh Yeah. I'm I'm like, are you like, do you know what I, mean?

Vongai: I for me to date musicians unless they're good 

Chipo: Which is why I, had to clap No musicians, no [01:06:00] drummers. 

I've gone for I was like, let me. Just keep it 100 

I know you froze. you hear me? no. Can you hear me, chip?

something happened.

it's Hold up one second. Is that better yes. Yes. We're back. off musicians.

yeah. Said I'm not doing more drummers, too much 

passion, too flaky. I once write, let's just have a lawyer. She's organized.

you go. out fiance. coming soon. Oh, and a quick shout out to Ivan from 1980 T-Shirt Company so that his name's out there. Thanks for the merge. All right. 

Vongai: So Dame cheaper. It was an honour and a privilege have you in this space. [01:07:00] As we, wrap up, would it if you could share a message with our listeners as well as letting them know where ,they can follow you, whether that's in Instagram, Twitter, the tings, tos, whatever. You don't have to spell it, out. gonna be in the show notes. 

Chipo: Perfect. Yeah, I just wanna say thank you for staying with us on this journey. We've touched on so many things and spoken about loads of stuff, so just thank you for. Sticking with us. You can find me on social media at Dame Chipo. That's the same on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, all the things.

It's the brand girls, the brand. But otherwise, please follow the black actor's accent room as well for all your accenting vocal needs. Otherwise, you can find me@bantucreatives.com where you can see all of the different projects that I'm involved with. Or you could just email me direct And put me in your movie. That's another option, 

Vongai: wonderful. You've heard her. You know where to [01:08:00] find her. Put her in your movie, , 

Chipo: Thank you much for on.

Vongai: you 

Chipo: for having me. It's been a blast.